New Zealand Parliamentary Debate

Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Deletion Bill [4469]

Rodney Hide

: You see, they can even shout out during points of order and get away with it.

The ASSISTANT SPEAKER( Ann Hartley)

: There will be silence during points of order.

Rodney Hide

: Well, it should not just be recorded; Judith Tizard should be sent out-because if I were doing it I would be.

The ASSISTANT SPEAKER( Ann Hartley)

: Please be seated. The member's point of order certainly went on far too long, and much of it was not a point of order. Did Nandor Tanczos still want to speak to the point of order?

Rodney Hide

: Madam Assistant Speaker, I had not finished, and if you are going to allow Ministers from the Government side to interject, is that a new ruling? The point I am making is that there seems to be two rules in this House.

The ASSISTANT SPEAKER( Ann Hartley)

: The member knows he cannot assert that. The member will be seated.

Rodney Hide

: But I have not finished. Just because Judith Tizard interrupted me, it does not mean I have to stop.

The ASSISTANT SPEAKER( Ann Hartley)

: It does mean you have to stop, because I have heard the point of order and ruled that the member has to present the point of order in a succinct way.

Rodney Hide

: Well, let me summarise in a succinct way, because it will affect your ruling.

The ASSISTANT SPEAKER( Ann Hartley)

: The member will be seated. I have heard the point of order.

Rodney Hide

: You're going to get another one.

The ASSISTANT SPEAKER( Ann Hartley)

: Please be seated.

Nandor Tanczos

: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I want to draw your attention to perhaps another dimension on this issue. It relates to the Speakers' rulings on pages 50, 51, and 52 of Speakers' Rulings. Speaker's ruling 50/ 6 states: The Speaker will interpose immediately when, in the Speaker's judgment, the word used is offensive;... a member may rise and test the matter..., Speaker's ruling 51/ 7 states: An expression or a word that may be regarded as acceptable parliamentary language in one context may not be acceptable in another context., and Speaker's ruling 52/ 1 states: The key element in judging whether a word is appropriate, is whether it will bring disorder. The inflection, the gesture or the menace with which a word is said, can also bring disorder. It seems to me that if there is a constant habit among members of mispronouncing Maori words, then that may well be an issue that brings disorder if Maori members of the House in particular, and perhaps other members, are offended by it. So it seems to me that the application of those Speakers' rulings may well apply.

The ASSISTANT SPEAKER( Ann Hartley)

: That interpretation could be taken but the point Mr Donnelly made concerned the how. If we were to have that, there would be extensive points of order that in themselves could bring disorder. Mr Tisch spoke to the point of whether a member had indicated he or she had taken offence at the pronunciation of a word-and I am sure that the member did not imply any offence, at all. I would ask Mr Woolerton to move on and to make clear what he was saying.

R DOUG WOOLERTON

: Absolutely-thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. I would like to make it clear-

Rodney Hide

: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker-

The ASSISTANT SPEAKER( Ann Hartley)

: I will hear from just Mr Woolerton. Would the member please continue.

R DOUG WOOLERTON

: Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker, and I would like to make it clear-